Tony Attwood
Flyweight
Posts:51
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| 13 Sep 2006 9:46 PM |
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Oh dear Bandanaman you really laid yourself open to the comments from "Boxing" and "Superboxing"
You said
"Anyway, i'm a little confused regarding the issues relating to Diabetes ....Yes, a boxer may well expend different levels of energy in a contest, as will a footballer, as will Sir Stephen Redgrave in a more compet*tive race."
The whole point is that in other sports the training IS able to factor in all the problems whereas in Boxing it is impossible to do so.
Your next point
"The difference of course is that a footballer could be subst*tuted, whereas a boxer is in the hands of his corner and the referee. A boxer stands to be seriously hurt whereas a footballer may just under perform." This actually is the crux of the problem so what is your suggestion? Should we allow boxers to be at risk of being seriously hurt?
I think not.
Your next point also shows why we have to have medical controls:
"There are many reasons why a boxer fades during a contest. Fitness being one, recovering from illness, colds, flu etc., another.Both rear their heads often without prior knowledge of the corner or the referee and both may impair the boxers defence and lead to a KO."
ANY coach should know whether his boxer is fit so "without prior knowledge of the corner" does not stand up.
NO boxer should compete when unfit, recovering from illness etc.
Read Medical Aspects of Boxing which specifically mentions this.
That is why Diabetes is such a special problem and why WE are waiting for the specialists to give us their answers. |
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JASPER
Flyweight
Posts:62
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| 13 Sep 2006 10:18 PM |
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 THANKYOU FOR YOUR EXTENDED OPINION EX WING COMMANDER ANTHONY ATTWOOD F.R.C.S. WHICH YOU ARE VERY ENTITLED TO GIVE ,BUT THATS ALL IT IS ...AN OPINION LETS GET BACK TO THE FACTS NOW WE ARE TALKING AGAIN. I WILL KEEP THIS SHORT!
ANTHONY ATTWOOD QUOTE "12-05-2005 DIABETIC INTERNATIONAL BOXERS TRYING TO BOX IN ENGLAND WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO COMPETE"- ARE YOU GOING TO INFORM THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY BEFORE THE EURO`S 2008 ?
ARE DIABETIC BOXERS ALLOWED TO COMPETE IN ENGLAND IF THEIR CONSULTANT IS RINGSIDE (LIKE THEY DID IN DEVON WHEN YOU INFORMED ME THAT NO DIABETICS WERE BOXING IN ENGLAND).
WHO ARE THE BOXING AUTHORITIES THAT ARE NOT HAPPY WITH THE AIBA REQUIREMENT, STABLE AND WELL CONTROLLED - I WOULD LIKE TO WRITE TO THEM?
I DONT BELIEVE THE ABAE WANT DIABETICS BANNED FROM BOXING (YOU DO)BECAUSE I HAD THE AUDACITY TO CHALLENGE YOUR DECISIONS. LIKE DR. JAKO (HUNGARY) AIBA MEDICAL CHAIRMAN SAID QUOTE "THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON TO LONG, IN OTHER COUNTRIES THE PROBLEMS WERE SORTED OUT MUCH SOONER" |
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Bandanaman
Flyweight
Posts:63
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| 14 Sep 2006 2:52 AM |
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The whole point is that in other sports the training IS able to factor in all the problems whereas in Boxing it is impossible to do so.
WHY? We're talking about expended energy and blood sugar levels aren't we? Why can this not be factored into a Boxing match but can be in other sports? How many clubs check their boxers for Diabetes, Contact lenses, medical conditions before they start training and sparring?
Your next point
"The difference of course is that a footballer could be subst*tuted, whereas a boxer is in the hands of his corner and the referee. A boxer stands to be seriously hurt whereas a footballer may just under perform." This actually is the crux of the problem so what is your suggestion? Should we allow boxers to be at risk of being seriously hurt?
If you had a gun then you'd shoot yourelf in the foot Tony! Are you suggesting that boxing is an entirely safe sport with no risk of being hurt? Do you not accept that being hit about the head is in itself potentially dangerous, and particularly so when the amateur regulations do not require brain scans etc.,? If we go down the no risk route then we pander to the BMA and others who'd love to see boxings demise.
I don't belive that anybody should box unless 100% fit and able to do so but in this very pc world we live in, if Diabetics can compete in other sports then it wil take a much stronger argument to stop them becoming amateur boxers.
I
Your next point also shows why we have to have medical controls:
"There are many reasons why a boxer fades during a contest. Fitness being one, recovering from illness, colds, flu etc., another.Both rear their heads often without prior knowledge of the corner or the referee and both may impair the boxers defence and lead to a KO."
ANY coach should know whether his boxer is fit so "without prior knowledge of the corner" does not stand up.
NO boxer should compete when unfit, recovering from illness etc.
Read Medical Aspects of Boxing which specifically mentions this.
I am fully aware of the Medical Aspects of Amateur Boxing but if you seriously think that listening to a boys chest and asking him to touch his toes amounts to a thorough pre-fight medical then you are in my opinion mistaken. If you believe that a boxer will always tell his coach he has been flu-ridden prior to a championship bout then again you are misguided.
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larks
Light Flyweight
Posts:30
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| 14 Sep 2006 11:17 AM |
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boxing....
i do know exactly what i am talking about. I am not ging to write pages of replys because this forum will not change the rules, the people that i am in contact with , diabeties uk, is trying to help, also bsped,they hopefully will be able to get the required do *** ents and so the correct guidelines will be place.
Another fact for you ; A diabetic CAN fight in England as long as they have turned professional. |
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boxing
Light Flyweight
Posts:35
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| 14 Sep 2006 11:36 AM |
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| Yes but we are not talking about pro boxing are we the fact is diabetics cant participate in amateur boxing in and that should be the way it stays. |
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Bandanaman
Flyweight
Posts:63
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| 14 Sep 2006 1:59 PM |
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Hang on a minute.
How can a boxer compete as a professional but not as an amateur, bearing in mind Mr Attwoods view that it is difficult, impossible even, to ascertain the blood sugar insulin levels required in a strenuous contest? |
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Nick Tansley
Light Flyweight
Posts:16
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| 14 Sep 2006 2:06 PM |
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Firstly, can i say that i nothing about Diabetes but am intruiged at all the responses, slanging aside.
From what i have read on this thread i take it that it is a case of working out insulin dosage or blood sugar levels needed for a contest possibly/probably a strenous one. If a certain dosage was administered and a boxer was knocked out in the first couple of seconds could the dosage calculated and administered have an adverse effect on the diabetic?
Excuse my ignorance if this falls into that category.
I am neither for or against this but would be concerned for future reference. |
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JASPER
Flyweight
Posts:62
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| 14 Sep 2006 9:25 PM |
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BANDANAMAN WHAT A FANTASTIC POSTING IN RESPONSE TO WING COMMANDER ANTHONY ATTWOOD F.R.C.S.
AND HIS BIASED THREADS OF WHICH HAVE PROBABLY BEEN COMPILED BY A THIRD PARTY WITHIN THE ABAE MEDICAL COMMISSION. (WONDER WHO THAT COULD BE)?
BECAUSE I HAVE AN ADMISSION IN BLACK AND WHITE BY ANTHONY ATTWOOD THAT HE KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT DIABETES. AS YOU WILL FIND OUT BANDANAMAN ANTHONY ATTWOOD WILL NOT DISCUSS, BUT WILL TALK DOWN TO YOU. I THINK IT MUST BE THROW BACK FROM HIS SERVICE DAYS. MANY PEOPLE I HAVE SPOKEN TO OVER THE LAST 21 MONTHS WARNED ME ABOUT HIS AROGANT PATRONISING WAYS. A MAN WHO THRIVES ON HAVING THE POWER TO INFLUENCE PARTICULAR SITUATIONS BUT AS YOU SAY SHOOTS HIMSELF IN THE FOOT MORE FREQUENTLY THAN HE WOULD LIKE.
JUST A QUICKIE - BOXING.....IF YOU HAVING NOTHING CONSTRUCTIVE TO ADD REGARDING THIS ISSUE PLEASE BE QUITE BEFORE YOU MAKE A BIGGER FOOL OUT OF YOURSELF THAN YOU ALREADY HAVE.
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JASPER
Flyweight
Posts:62
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| 14 Sep 2006 10:13 PM |
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 MR TANSLEY A BRIEF EXPLANATION OF MY SONS DIABETES - BECAUSE A TYPE 1 DIABETIC CANNOT MAKE INSULIN TO TURN CARBS INTO ENERGY INJECTIONS OF INSULIN ARE GIVEN 4 TIMES A DAY A MEAL TIMES. THE INSULIN IN MEASURED METICULOUSLY TO CARB INTAKE TO GIVE A BLOOD SUGAR READING AS NEAR TO A NON DIABETIC AS POSSIBLE BETWEEN 4-7 (MMOL/1)
NOVARAPID INSULIN STAYS IN THE BODY APPROX 2 HOURS
AFTER 2 HRS A BLOOD SUGAR READING IS TAKEN WHICH IS
ALWAYS AROUND THE 7-8 MARK. AFTER 1 1/2 HRS BOXING TRAINING INCLUDING 6 ROUNDS SPARRING THE BLOOD SUGAR ACTUALLY RISES 1 TO 2 POINTS. SO WHEN MR. ATTWOOD (WHO KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT DIABETES) STANDS ON HIS SOAP BOX AND ISSUES OUT OF DATE STATEMENTS AND SCARE MONGERING - LET HIM TELL MY 14 YEAR OLD BOY WHY HE WONT LET HIM BOX 3 2 MINUTE ROUNDS (BY THE WAY BEFORE HE WAS BANNED FROM THE RING HE HAD ALREADY BEATEN 2 ENGLAND REPRESENTATIVE BOXERS AND BOXED IN CANADA AND AMERICA). PLEASE IF YOU NEED ANYMORE INFORMATION REGARDING DIABETES (THERE ARE OVER 1 MILLION PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY ALONE THAT DO NOT KNOW THEY HAVE DIABETES). CONTACT DIABETES UK WHO ARE IN FULL SUPPORT OF MINE AND OTHERS CAMPAIGNS. |
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boxing
Light Flyweight
Posts:35
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| 14 Sep 2006 10:38 PM |
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| By the way jasper how am i making a fool of my self your the sad little one who wants his own way and its not working so your spitting your dummy out the pram. |
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larks
Light Flyweight
Posts:30
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| 15 Sep 2006 9:04 PM |
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listen "boxing"............. SHUT UP .................
you aint got a clue mate if you did you would be the one who would pick up your rattle and listen to the facts like an adult would, but that must be beyond your comprehension to listen and see reason you seem very narrow minded. Every country whom is within the EU DOES allow diabetics to box. England is the only exception........ even Scotland allows it, need i go on ??????? |
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sammy
Flyweight
Posts:60
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| 15 Sep 2006 10:48 PM |
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Talk about boxing Larks thats if you know about it but i dont think you do, and give us all a rest you boring person    |
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maxi
Light Flyweight
Posts:8
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| 16 Sep 2006 11:28 PM |
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We have a lad in our club who is very talented indeed,he has diabetes it would be a travisty if he never boxed.he has so much talent.
The lads name is danny who trains 3 times a week,never misses a session,works harder than most and spars with lads who has had 50 fights +.England is behind other countries in boxing terms,where are our medals?we need to keep up with these other countries if we want to win things.The medical board should keep up,if they dont the abae should get people in who want to listen and not just live of there own opinion.If its good enough for the rest of the world why not england,by the time our medical board has pulled its finger out we will be too far behind. |
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larks
Light Flyweight
Posts:30
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| 17 Sep 2006 11:12 PM |
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sammy
do you even know anyone who is diabetic??????? dont sound like you do so get back to sweepin the floors RUNT   |
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boxing
Light Flyweight
Posts:35
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| 18 Sep 2006 11:25 AM |
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Listen Larks i won't shut up OK
and i know more about boxing than you your the one who dosent seem to know anything about boxing the way your going on
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Tony Attwood
Flyweight
Posts:51
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| 18 Sep 2006 12:10 PM |
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I am sorry that various correspondents are living in their own world and not opening their minds to reality.
It is about time some home truths were brought out.
No matter what Jasper & Larks may say, I am in dialogue with paediatricians and diabetic specialists around the country (and the world) and I do have a basic knowledge of Diabetes Mellitus and insulin actions.
As I have told Jasper before I am not a diabetic specialist and so I do not know about Diabetes as a specialist does. That is NOT the same as knowing nothing about Diabetes.
Because the ABAE wants to be sure we are acting in the best interest of boxers we take advice from specialists. This applies equally to diabetes, cardiac, lung and familial genetic conditions to name just a few.
When the specialists tell us there are criteria to be met, and the ABA have been given the “rules” from the specialist organisation, we act on them and the rules for amateur boxing are then changed.
The present situation is that none of the specialist organisations for care of diabetics has given the ABA any standards that could be considered as being safe enough (– we all know there are risks involved) to permit insulin dependent diabetics to be allowed to box. That is NOT MY DECISION. (see Jasper, I also know where the capital b*tton is).
I have been given a list of “rules” by one doctor that looks good to me but it has not been approved by that doctor’s professional *ssociation. That list has been given to AIBA and EABA so that doctors around the world can *ssess it and perhaps give approval. The current AIBA rules state that “stable and well controlled” diabetics may box but they have not defined what is meant by “stable and well controlled”. When there is a definition of “stable and well controlled” then the situation may change. I do not know how other countries get round this but in England we have to take the advice of the specialist organisations. Larks you are wrong, there are European countries other than England that do not allow Diabetics to box and that is because they also have to take specialist organisation advice.
Finally, I will NOT respond to any other postings on this topic until I can find some POSITIVE points to comment on. If those come from individuals, EABA, AIBA or BMA(!) or the Paediatric Diabetologists *ssociations I *ssure you they will be posted.
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Bandanaman
Flyweight
Posts:63
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| 18 Sep 2006 12:36 PM |
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The present situation is that none of the specialist organisations for care of diabetics has given the ABA any standards that could be considered as being safe enough (– we all know there are risks involved) to permit insulin dependent diabetics to be allowed to box.
On that basis I *ssume that Audiologists (Lughole Doctors), Neurologists, (Brain Doctors) Orthodontists (Teeth Specialists) have all provided sufficient standards to allow ABAE to make similar decisions of approval to box? |
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JASPER
Flyweight
Posts:62
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| 18 Sep 2006 5:57 PM |
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WING COMMANDER ATTWOOD F.R.C.S. WHAT YOU FAILED TO TELL THE FORUM MEMBERS IS THAT THE ONLY REASON YOU ARE IN DIALOGUE WITH PAEDIATRICANS AND DIABETIC SPECIALISTS IS BECAUSE OF THE GROUND WORK DONE BY OTHERS FROM AROUND THE COUNTRY AND IF IT WASNT FOR OPEN FORUMS LIKE THIS YOUR SECRET TALES WOULD NOT BE AIRED AND WOULD PROBABLY LIE IN THE RECYCLE BIN ON YOUR COMPUTERS FOR NOBODY TO SEE! (PEOPLE CAN READ BETWEEN THE LINES OF YOUR REPLIES).
YOU STILL HAVENT GIVEN A REPLY TO THE MAIN QUESTION THOUGH ARE THE ABAE MEDICAL COMMISSION TO INFORM AIBA THAT DIABETIC BOXERS FROM OUTSIDE ENGLAND WILL NOT BE ABLE TO COMPETE IN EITHER 2008 EUROS OR 2012 OLYMPICS?
AND YES WING COMMANDER, I KNOW YOU KNOW WHERE THE CAPITAL BUTTON IS - I HAVE EMAILS FROM YOU TO PROVE IT! I'M SURE YOU WILL AGREE ITS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE TO NOTE THAT ALL MY POSTINGS ARE IN CAPITALS!!!!!!!!!! |
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Canvas Back
Light Flyweight
Posts:20
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| 19 Sep 2006 9:28 PM |
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| What your realy saying MR ATTWOOD is i`m the BOSS like it or lump it |
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prattler
Light Flyweight
Posts:11
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| 20 Sep 2006 1:01 AM |
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Hey Jasper, Aren't you out of date? Attwood left the RAF 12 years ago! He aint Wing commander now.
Even then he was talking to doctors about boxers with diabetes so much of what you have written is cr*p!
Also writing in capitals is basic rudeness on message boards.
Get a grip man and talk sense.
I know Attwood can be arrogant but he is working for boxing and trying to help the boxers. You only have to read his postings accurately to see what he says makes sense for everyone.
Yes I am sorry for your son but stopletting emotion get in the way of commonsense.
Canvas Back, perhapsyour name is because you are always on the canvas and already brain damaged
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