JASPER
Flyweight
Posts:62
 |
| 09 Sep 2006 1:30 PM |
 Alert
|
 WELL DONE SAMMY NOW YOU HAVE CLEANSED THE FORUM LETS GET DOWN TO SOME SERIOUSE ANSWERS!!IT`S YOUR TURN NOW ABAE........SUPRISE ME |
|
|
|
|
Nick Tansley
Light Flyweight
Posts:16
|
| 09 Sep 2006 4:05 PM |
Alert
|
| Get rid of the idiot i dont think he made one positive post. |
|
|
|
|
Amazon
Light Flyweight
Posts:7
|
| 09 Sep 2006 6:06 PM |
Alert
|
Are the aba being stubborn on this issue.
Is it because someone has dared to challenge their authority,thatthey choose not to allow diabetics to box
Surely the rest of the world can,t be wrong in allowing diabetics to box.
They are allowed to takepart in amatuer wrestling kickboxing football and judo.
so I say to the ABA get in tune with the rest of the world and allow them to box |
|
|
|
|
sammy
Flyweight
Posts:60
|
| 09 Sep 2006 7:07 PM |
Alert
|
Can they box in Wales/Scotland /Ireland ? |
|
|
|
|
JASPER
Flyweight
Posts:62
|
| 10 Sep 2006 9:22 AM |
Alert
|
DIABETICS CAN BOX IN SCOTLAND (APPARENTLY). NO DISRESPECT TO IRELAND BUT IF YOU HAVE A PULSE THEY WILL FIGHT ANYBODY. THE WELSH I THINK WILL JUST SIT ON THE FENCE AND DO WHAT ENGLAND DO.
THE ABA MEDICAL CHAIRMAN SAID TO ME 20MONTHS AGO (1) THERE IS NO ONE BOXING IN ENGLAND WITH DIABETES
- I FOUND 2 PEOPLE BOXING.
(2) NO DIABETICS SPECIALIST WOULD COME FORWARD IN SUPPORT OF DIABETICS BOXING. (I FOUND 6 SPECIALISTS).
(3) YOU NEED TO PRODUCE A CRITERIA LIST TO ALLOW DIABETICS TO COMPETE. A DIABETIC SPECIALIST DID THIS AND IT WAS DISTRIBUTED TO AIBA.
(4) THE MEDICAL CHAIRMAN OF ABAE SAID IT WAS NOT GOOD ENOUGH AND WANTED THE LIST ENDORSING FROM THE PAEDIATRIC GOVERNING BODY OF ENGLAND, KNOWING FULL WELL THAT THE PAEDIATRIC GOVERNING BODY IN GENERAL DO NOT APPROVE OF BOXING.
I HAVE BEEN SENT ON A WILD GOOSE CHASE FOR THE LAST 20 MONTHS, ARE THE EXECUTIVES OF THE ABAE AWARE OF WHAT HAS BEEN GOING ON.
THE MEDICAL CHAIRMAN OF THE ABAE AND HIS CHORLEY PUPPET HAVE DONE EVERYTHING THEY CAN DO TO BE UNREASONABLE - AND YES AMAZON THIS IS BECAUSE I CHALLENGED THEIR AUTHORITY. |
|
|
|
|
boxing
Light Flyweight
Posts:35
|
| 10 Sep 2006 10:57 PM |
Alert
|
Which kinds of exercise work best?
The best exercise is exercise you enjoy. It is easier to form a habit of exercising if you enjoy the activity. Aerobic exercise helps heart fitness. Aerobic exercises include most activities that are done for a period of 25 to 30 minutes or longer. Examples of such activities are walking briskly, swimming, jogging and bicycling. When activities, are done in short bursts with rests in between (such as weight lifting), they are considered strength-building exercises, not aerobic exercise.
Many people enjoy walking for exercise because it is easier for them to do on a daily basis. Wearing a pedometer helps you to see exactly how many steps you take each day. Each 2,000 steps equals about 1 mile. Gradually increase how much you walk to at least 10,000 steps per day.
People with diabetes participate in almost every sport. Boxing is the only activity that is not recommended. Eye injuries are common in boxing, and eye problems are a possible complication of diabetes.
Activities that increase the pressure on the eyes, such as weight lifting and jogging, are not recommended if you have eye problems related to diabetes. If you have eye problems, talk to your health care provider before beginning a new exercise program.
|
|
|
|
|
noddy
Light Flyweight
Posts:48
|
| 10 Sep 2006 11:14 PM |
Alert
|
A good boxing coach will tell you that the best defense is an aggressive offense" you should Learn all you can about diabetes treatment, carbohydrate counting, exercise and medication, and attack it.
These days there are people climbing mountains, traveling, teaching, volunteering and doing anything and everything imaginable with diabetes.
There are support groups, new technologies, books and magazines on treatment and a myriad of sources of information available to help fight diabetes.
All we have to do is stay focused on the things that make life meaningful, things that compel us to keep up the fight. |
|
|
|
|
Canvas Back
Light Flyweight
Posts:20
|
| 11 Sep 2006 9:16 PM |
Alert
|
I WOULD THROW THE LADYBIRD BOOK AWAY IF I WAS YOU "BOXING"
IF THE SPECIALISTS WAS TO TELL ME THAT I COULDNT DO A PARTICULAR EXERCISE
OR SPORT THEN I WOULDNT DO IT. FULL STOP...........
BUT JASPER SEEMS WELL VERSED IN THE DIABETES SUBJECT, SO YOU WOULD
DO BETTER TO TAKE NOTICE BEFORE POSTING YOUR NEXT REPLY
ARE YOU SAMMYS ALTER EGO????????? |
|
|
|
|
sammy
Flyweight
Posts:60
|
| 11 Sep 2006 10:57 PM |
Alert
|
Canvas back as jasper got his hand up your back like a puppet master yes jasper no jasper your right jasper your another one who does not have anything to do with boxing or are you and jasper the same gay yes i mean gay. |
|
|
|
|
Tony Attwood
Flyweight
Posts:51
|
| 12 Sep 2006 10:39 AM |
Alert
|
I apologise for the delay in a formal reply to Jasper's ranting and misguided comments.
I tried to post last night after having to re-activate my log-in details and having been away for a while.
Unfortunately the reply was comprehensive and overloaded the "quick reply" box I typed it in to and it has been lost.
I will re write it tonight despite Jasper's continued rudeness.
For the information of ALL forum users I had to refuse to accept ANY e-mail correspondence from Jasper (Paul Moseley) when he plagued me with abusive and inaccurate correspondence and the ABAE Office and Board members were kept informed. |
|
|
|
|
Bandanaman
Flyweight
Posts:63
|
| 12 Sep 2006 3:30 PM |
Alert
|
Despite your obvious irritation at the way Jasper has presented his argument I don't think it right that somebody in what is presumably an official capacity answering questions on this forum should expose people's ident*ty |
|
|
|
|
JASPER
Flyweight
Posts:62
|
| 12 Sep 2006 5:13 PM |
Alert
|
AT LAST A REPLY FROM THE ABAE. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH YOU EXPOSING MY NAME, BUT I DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH YOUR SLANDEROUS COMMENTS. IN ALL MY PREVIOUS CORRESPONDENCE TO YOU I HAVE NEVER BEEN ABUSIVE AND INACCURATE AND I HAVE LOGGED AND DUPLICATED ALL EMAILS OF OUR CORRESPONDENCE FOR FUTURE REFERENCE. THE MISLEADING AND INACCURATE INFORMATION CAME FROM YOU AND I HAVE THE PROOF IN BLACK AND WHITE. THE PRESSURE MUST BE GETTING TO YOU IN THE UNPROFESSIONAL WAY IN WHICH YOU HAVE ATTEMPTED TO CHARACTER ASSASSINATE ME. YOU HAVE STILL NOT ANSWERED QUESTIONS FROM ME OR OTHER PARTIES RELATING TO DIABETES ISSUES IN THIS FORUM.
I FIND IT A GREAT COINCIDENCE THAT ANOTHER OF YOUR EMAILS DISAPPEARED FROM YOUR COMPUTER, JUST LIKE THEY DID LAST YEAR!! |
|
|
|
|
Amazon
Light Flyweight
Posts:7
|
| 12 Sep 2006 6:52 PM |
Alert
|
In spite of Tony Attwoods, oppinionof Jasper. he has no right to to name him publicly.
I would hope that the ABAE who control this sight will take action against Mr Attwood. |
|
|
|
|
larks
Light Flyweight
Posts:30
|
| 12 Sep 2006 8:11 PM |
Alert
|
| I think that the naming of jasper is total unacceptable by tony attwood - medical chairman - and yet another example of his abuse of his authority within the abae. He is privy to confidential information within the abae that he should NEVER of disclosed, this is outrageous. Sammy was able to get rid of alibumaye because of his comments ........ what about tony attwood. The comments jasper has made have been well founded and extremelly well made. Diabetics are able to box world wide and yes also in scotland. Mr attwood should bring the abae in to tthe 21 century. |
|
|
|
|
Tony Attwood
Flyweight
Posts:51
|
| 13 Sep 2006 2:06 AM |
Alert
|
Well, well, well, it appears that other alias correspondents have had a nerve hit by my short reply. Perhaps they had better be aware that all my comments on this forum are my own and do not represent ABAE policy except where I put in a heading of "Official Reply" Please note that I will continue to put names where I personally feel it appropriate (“Larks” Mrs Lar**** beware) and I applaud Jasper in accepting that. I do however refute all the rest of his innuendos, rudeness to ABAE and the doctors working for boxing and his blatant disregard of the facts that have been presented regarding Insulin Dependent diabetics and boxing.
The following is ALL factual reply to the comments raised thoughout the threads regarding "Boxing with Diabetes" and also the other topic "Olympics London 2012". Where there is my own opinion as opposed to a fact, I will make that clear.
It is fact that the ABA of England do not allow Insulin Dependent (Type1) Diabetics to box. This type of diabetes is usually juvenile diabetes (ie starting in childhood) and has been *ssociated with a shortened life expectancy and multi organ failure as well as the problems of poor sugar control eye damage, peripheral neuropathy and skin problems etc. mentioned by various respondents on this forum. Unfortunately many of these problems do still exist despite much better blood sugar control. All the further comments about "Diabetics" or "Diabetes" only refer to this type of diabetes.
It is fact that there has not been sufficient "well controlled" diabetic studies yet to show that these problems are no longer a factor in well managed diabetics in later life. This is not the problem for the ABAE as, just as for anyone else, if the boxer is "fit" at the time of medical it is the boxer who takes the risk of participating in the sport. If a potential boxer conceals any aspect of their medical history then that person is putting themself at risk and also negates any insurance cover that the ABA holds.
This applies equally to parents that may conceal things when they sign the forms for their child.
The primary problem is that of general medical opinion in England. It is NOT a problem of "boxing doctors" but the problem is the non boxing doctors.
It is fact that the largest body of doctors in UK (the BMA) is still persuing an active campaign to get all boxing banned in Britain. They make no distinction between amateur and professional and yet there is a big difference. The BMA is still looking for any excuse to mount a further major attack and in the Amateur sport we are trying to prove that the medical controls make it as safe as possible. For over 30 years (so far longer than your sons have been involved in boxing Jasper and Larks) the ABA Medical Commission have been looking at Diabetes and boxing to see if there is any way forward. I have been party to these discussions for over 20 years myself.
You are both WRONG when you state that the ABAE are trying to PREVENT diabetics from boxing.
Although the doctors on the ABAE Medical Commission have been in discussion with diabetologists (doctors who look after diabetics) for many years the general concensus of opinion from the diabetologists is that diabetics should NOT be allowed to box. That has been an across the board statement without any reference to "stable" or "well controlled". This opinion comes from consultants expert in the management of both paediatric and adult diabetics.
How can ABAE doctors then advise that diabetics may box?
The BMA would immediately claim recklessness and stupidity and indeed try to prove professional negligence against all boxing doctors. With their large membership numbers they would find enough "expert witnesses" (doctors against boxing) so that they would win such a case.
Within the last 10 years, there have been a few consultants who have contacted the ABAE Medical Commission to suggest that an individual diabetic patient appears to be stable and well controlled and fit enough to be allowed to box. I have welcomed these approaches and have a file of correspondence with these consultants asking for their help but NOT ONE has agreed to help at Boxing Events. Only ONE has come back to give a definition of what he considers to be a "stable and well controlled" diabetic and I have very gratefully received his suggestions and have tried to get these criteria accepted. Jasper knows this doctor and he is aware that that doctor has given me the list of criteria AND that I am keen for them to be approved no matter what Jasper has written on this forum.
What Jasper does not accept is that that doctor has not said that he will look after diabetics when they are boxing and accept responsibility for them.
Jasper expects non specialist doctors to look after diabetics and be responsible for them when the specialists have NOT accepted the rules themselves and agreed that those rules make it safe. (In fact they are not "rules" but are suggestions from one doctor that look very sensible to me but I am not a specialist in the care of diabetics)
The result is that, at present, there is a large body of doctors who are looking for any excuse to stop boxing.
Diabetics have not been allowed to box in the past and I and ABA doctors are seeking rules from the consultants who care for diabetics so that they can box with the safeguard of their own consultants applying the rules. If the specialist consultants give approval then WE have the "expert witnesses" and can fight the BMA.
That is the fact of the politics behind diabetes and boxing.
I will now come on to the practical problems that have to be addressed.
The first is the definition of "Stable and well controlled". There has been NO definition of "stable and well controlled" produced by any country. AIBA rules require diabetics to be "stable and well controlled". Once there is a definition of "stable and well controlled" then it MAY be possible to use this to allow diabetics to box under AIBA rules. No one person (such as the consultant who produced a list of requirements for Jasper's son) can produce a definition of "stable and well controlled" on their own. That is why the ABAE has to get the national organisation for diabetologists to approve a definition. Only when the criteria suggested are approved will the ABAE Medical Commission be able to suggest altering the present rules.
Next we must look at the points raised by "boxing mad" and that Jasper and Larks and others apparently choose to ignore.
Boxing is unlike almost every other sport in that it is IMPOSSIBLE for the training to mimic the conditions of all contests. Sprinters to marathon runners know exactly what energy requirements are needed throughout their race. This also applies to cyclists, rowers, weightlifters, footballers etc. Sir Steven Redgrave is inspirational but he could train precisely for EVERY race he did and be sure that his diabetes would be in a controlled state. That is impossible in boxing.
Does anyone know how much activity is going to be required for each bout or even for an individual round? If you do then perhaps you should give the score and result before the bout. We have all seen bouts where a boxer may have strolled through whether winning or losing. Then that same boxer in the next bout may have to rush around for every second of every round with the result that far more sugar is converted to energy. In a diabetic where is the moment to moment control coming from? The "normal" injections may control for "normal" situations but there is no body response to adapt second by second. The result is that blood sugar levels may fluctuate significantly. This fluctuation may lead to slowing of reflexes and we all know that much of the defence in boxing is reflex. The risk is that the reflex may be slow at a critical moment and then the diabetic boxer sustains a hard punch. OK it may just be one punch but what if that was the real power punch that happened to land on the point of the chin and resulted in head rotation and m*ssive KO. What would the ringside MO think? What should the MO do? What should the referee have done? Had the referee noticed that the diabetic’s timing and reflexes had gone slightly? Should the bout have been stopped as soon as the timing had been seen to have faltered? Of course not, they are the same symptoms of receiving a few scoring punches but the results may be very different. The problem of compet*tive bouts is that they can not be stopped instantly whereas in training it can be.
So now I will give a personal opinion. I still feel that on the present knowledge it is unsafe for diabetics to box compet*tively. I am happy for them to train and do controlled sparring but a compet*tive bout remains one step too far. Once the diabetologists come up with the answers then I am happy to accept their decision and the rules would be changed.
Now back to the facts.
In reply to Jasper’s original enquiry, I attended the Copenhagen EABA & AIBA Medical Commission meetings and was involved in the diabetic discussion. Since then I have been in discussion with sports doctors and diabetologists and they have not given us any guidance. The paediatric diabetologists have had a conference and, although I was *ssured it would be discussed, boxing and diabetes was not brought up. I have offered to go to their council meeting to try and help and clarify any points but they have refused my offer.
The next point is that several of the countries that currently allow diabetics to box do so without any definition of the AIBA requirement “stable and well controlled”. Many of the boxing medical authorities are very unhappy about this and are edging back to stopping diabetics boxing. The main country that currently allows diabetics to box did so because of fear of litigation under discrimination, prejudice and human rights rules that were being raised by the diabetics’ societies. The boxing authorities are compiling dossiers to show no discrimination and also that the medical risks outweigh the human rights. It may change there as well. Watch this space!
I do not worry what Jasper may think of me personally as most of his comments have no factual basis but I do object to him s*ag ging others.
Jasper you should apologise to “Boxingmad” as it is obvious from more than one of your postings that you had *ssumed that that person is me. I have ensured I have my facts right. You should ensure you have yours correct and that also applies to your latest missive in which you accuse me of slander and imply I am lying. Regardless of what you may think I CAN prove all my comments are correct. If you are feeling “character *ss*ssinated” then so be it. Some sense may then prevail.
Finally I must make it clear that all of this response is that of the Chairman of the ABAE Medical Commission and only my point of view. It is not an official answer from the ABAE although I have discussed many of these points with officials and feel happy that my comments would be accepted.
|
|
|
|
|
larks
Light Flyweight
Posts:30
|
| 13 Sep 2006 12:16 PM |
Alert
|
well mr atwood at least you are showing you true colours now. Like i stated previously using abae confidential information to name people when you are NOT replying on behalf of the abae, BELOW THE BELT.
Why is it that if the abae do not let diabetics to enter into bouts, that they had authorised two twins who disclosed they WERE diabetic to obtain their medical cards and fight. double standards yet again i think..................... |
|
|
|
|
boxing
Light Flyweight
Posts:35
|
| 13 Sep 2006 12:18 PM |
Alert
|
| Larks if you dont know what your talking about then stay out of it |
|
|
|
|
Bandanaman
Flyweight
Posts:63
|
| 13 Sep 2006 12:32 PM |
Alert
|
Posted By Tony Attwood on 13 Sep 2006 2:06 AM
Perhaps they had better be aware that all my comments on this forum are my own and do not represent ABAE policy except where I put in a heading of "Official Reply" Please note that I will continue to put names where I personally feel it appropriate
Why the need to expose people's real names, if you know who they are, isn't that enough?
Do you think that Tony Blair could say lets 'nuke' Iraq and then say it was only a personal view?
Anyway, i'm a little confused regarding the issues relating to Diabetes and the examples used for comparative, or rather non-comparative sports. Yes, a boxer may well expend different levels of energy in a contest, as will a footballer, as will Sir Stephen Redgrave in a more compet*tive race. I would argue that it is easier to control ones blood sugar over a pre-determined 2 minute period than it is over 90 minutes of a football match.
The difference of course is that a footballer could be subst*tuted, whereas a boxer is in the hands of his corner and the referee. A boxer stands to be seriously hurt whereas a footballer may just under perform. So where do we draw the line. Using your example of a boxer who's blood sugar level drops in a contest and thereby makes him susceptible to punishment does not stand up on it's own. There are many reasons why a boxer fades during a contest. Fitness being one, recovering from illness, colds, flu etc., another. Both rear their heads often without prior knowledge of the corner or the referee and both may impair the boxers defence and lead to a KO. Some things cannot be balanced.
However, a diabetic boxer competing with full knowledge of his condition is rather like having an older car that has been fully serviced in preparation for a long journey. Often more preferable than having a newer car with no service history!
|
|
|
|
|
boxing
Light Flyweight
Posts:35
|
| 13 Sep 2006 12:34 PM |
Alert
|
| Your another one who doesnt know what hes talking about |
|
|
|
|
superboxing
Light Flyweight
Posts:0
|
| 13 Sep 2006 4:12 PM |
Alert
|
How long have all you stupid people been bickering like little kids about this subject.
Diabetics can’t box and people putting comments on this forum are not going to change it so stop arguing like little children.
|
|
|
|
|