fishbox
Light Flyweight
Posts:4
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| 29 Oct 2006 8:28 AM |
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| whats the view of the ABA on the Coaches Federation being setup in Liverpool |
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HedgeHog
Light Flyweight
Posts:9
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| 29 Oct 2006 7:05 PM |
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| http://fabcwl.blogspot.com/ |
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fishbox
Light Flyweight
Posts:4
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| 29 Oct 2006 7:16 PM |
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| Thanks for the info |
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HedgeHog
Light Flyweight
Posts:9
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| 29 Oct 2006 7:25 PM |
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No problem.
Where did you here about it and what are your thoughts? |
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fishbox
Light Flyweight
Posts:4
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| 29 Oct 2006 8:10 PM |
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The coaches at our club were asked to join,and we wanted some advice about it.
on your second point I would like a day or two to read and absorb the mission statement , i will get back to you with an opinion. |
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BOXCAR
Light Flyweight
Posts:1
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| 30 Oct 2006 7:25 PM |
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Boxcar
is the coaches federation a ploy to get coaches paid at club level if so could the people that are running this plan explain to me were the funds to subsidize this plan are coming from
i know its the advanced coaches of the west lancs who are behind this plan i have been contected with amatuer boxing for over 30years and have put thousands of voluntary time in and have raised thousands of pounds with other members of our committee the advanced coaches that i have come in contact with are only affilated to a club to keep there advanced coaching badge and do absolutely nothing to raise funds for the clubs that they are with and now they coming up with a plan to take money outof the funds for their own benifit most of them have not raised a penny to help the clubs they affillated to i await your replys with interest
Boxcar
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yorkshire lad
Light Flyweight
Posts:8
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| 30 Oct 2006 9:52 PM |
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| I agree with you Boxcar, it's probibly a splinter group of advanced coaches who previously have been associated with the old ABA. They are now looking for funds to establish themselves, there are no names attached to this association. I have been on there web site and no names appeared to who are behind this federation, like you Boxcar i wait for a reply. |
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pickles
Light Flyweight
Posts:30
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| 30 Oct 2006 9:56 PM |
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| sounds like yet another self interest group. Why not accept when things go against you the answer is not always set up your own group and elect yourself as "world president" or whatever Martin and Kevin now call themselves !!!! |
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Bandanaman
Flyweight
Posts:63
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| 30 Oct 2006 10:33 PM |
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Doesn't simple logic suggest that there would be no need for a Coaches Federation if there was a voice for coaches within ABAE? |
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HedgeHog
Light Flyweight
Posts:9
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| 31 Oct 2006 10:28 AM |
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The FABC is not a splinter group and has not been set up solely by advanced coaches. if you read under the 'aims' section it states:
"The FABC believes that coaching should be recognized as a vehicle to make sport a better place to be. Coaches should be recognised, funded and rewarded appropriately for their contribution."
This does not state or mean that the coaches are looking for wages. 'funded and rewarded' is not just about cash. Resepect and recognition cannot be bought.
What other sport charges its coaches to take a team to an international match? Is it fair that a coach pays towards his own travel and accomodation when giving up work, family time and time from his club to take athletes abroad? This has occured in one division of the ABAE. Why would a coach be made to do this and not any other member working as a volunteer within the ABAE?
If you read the rest of the do *** ent you may come to the same conclusion as Bandanaman in that it is more about the coaches gaining a voice and about respect and recognition for what they do and less about 'show me the money'(althought the real amis are of coache education and developemnt).
Boxcar, you mentioned the amount of time and effort you have invested in the game (and if this is true then you may have some idea about what really goes on in the sport), Many advanced coaches have come through the system and have put in just as much time and effort - notice I said many and not all. Still, this is not about advanced coaches - though some are invovled in the FABC- it is about coaches, full stop.
Coaches are second class citizens as far as respect, recognition and consideration goes. If boxing coaches want to develop to a recognised standard they have to do it themselves. Their time, their effort, their money.
The ABAE coaching courses do not have nationally recognised accreditation (i.e. N.V.Q. equivalence) and as a result mean very little outside of boxing. This needs to change and although the ABAE have promised progress and development in the area it has been very slow in coming - even though funding has been attracted for this very purpose.
The FABC is about coach education and development, about gaining a voice for coaches. There is no agenda and no one is looking for wages. If the ABAE want to support the coaches in such an endeavour, then great (and again, I am not talking purely finances).
The best way to find out what it is really about is to turn up at the next meeting - Sunday, 5th November at 1PM at the Fazakelrey Community Centre in Liverpool (I can provide you with direction if you are not sure - contact me via the blogsite).
And for the record, I was intrumental in setting up this federation and I am not an advanced coach (or even a senior coach). My name is Harry Otty and the real reason that there are no names on the blogsite is that it is not yet complete and as a federation we do not want it to appear that any one (or number of people) are 'running the show'.
Everyone in the FABC has a say in what direction we go and how we go about getting there. It is about an exchange of ideas, a sharing of knowledge and a forum for discusison. I don't know about the rest of the coaches out there, but I want amateur boxing in this country to be the best in the world. I want to develop as a coach and I want the respect that I deserve for the the time and effort that I put in. Even if that respect and recognition means that I am not looked down on by the rest of the people that are running the sport.
Every other coach in this sport should be treated with the respect that coaches in other countries receive. If you coached in the USA, Canada, Australia etc. You would be valued as a resource by the governing body you coach under, respected by the members of the community you serve and cherished by the parents of the children whose personal development you play a very large role in.
IMHO, as coaches in this sport we get two out of three.
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yorkshire lad
Light Flyweight
Posts:8
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| 31 Oct 2006 12:36 PM |
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| What club are you with Hedgehog. |
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sammy
Flyweight
Posts:60
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| 31 Oct 2006 12:53 PM |
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Hedgehogs with long lane abc and he thinks he knows what coaches need but i think the liverpool coaches will give him and the federation the   |
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noddy
Light Flyweight
Posts:48
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| 31 Oct 2006 1:15 PM |
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| If the above named are involved i will stay clear of them and the group. |
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HedgeHog
Light Flyweight
Posts:9
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| 31 Oct 2006 1:23 PM |
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That's correct Sammy - I'm with Long Lane ABC. I wouldn't say that I think I know what coaches need, but I do think I know what amateur boxing needs.
If you think that amateur boxing and the coach education system is fine as it is, then that is up to you. The ABAE are on the same page as the federation as far as coach education goes - or at least hey pay lip-service to the same. Hopefully we will all go in the same direction.
I don't expect everyone to take up what is being offered and there is no pressure form anyone to 'sign up' - unlike the pressure being put on some coaches by certain individuals to give the federation a wide berth.
You seem to think that coaches will not be interested. I would ask is why not?
I would also ask - seeing as you seem to know so much - why there seems to be opposition from some quarters with regards to a group of coaches getting together to share knowledge and experience for the betterment of themselves and thier athletes.
This sport has been in the dark ages for a long time. Some people would like to keep things the way. I'm not one of them.
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HedgeHog
Light Flyweight
Posts:9
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| 31 Oct 2006 1:25 PM |
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Posted By noddy on 31 Oct 2006 1:15 PM
If the above named are involved i will stay clear of them and the group.
Based on what?
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tnt
Light Flyweight
Posts:3
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| 02 Nov 2006 8:51 PM |
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is this yet another Liverpool thing ? why dont we just call it the Liverpool ABA(L)....come on Martin get with the real world. The ABAE have a coaching commission put your efforts in to that and your ABAE Council Member John Hallem.   |
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boxcar710
Light Flyweight
Posts:4
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| 02 Nov 2006 9:56 PM |
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boxar710
hedgehog i can assure you that i have been involved with amatuer boxing with the same club since 1972
after reading through your very well put together letter i still say where are you going to get the funds to pay all coaches that join your federation
let me take you what it will cost a club like ours we have six coaches one senior coach two full coaches and three asstistant coaches who put in an average of twelve hours a week if we had to pay them £10 an hour that would be £120 each would work out £826 per week and then we would have to consider our two admin men who put in thirty hours each a week that would be another £600 we would be looking at £1426 per week i think you and and your fellow orginisers are in cloud cookoo land
at the moment any one who wants to become a aba coach all they have to do is put their name down go on the course most of them dont put any time in the gym but put it on their CV getting jobs in schools and leisure centres it costs clubs who put genuine people who want help in the gyms £60 plus £50 first aid with st johns and £15 for CRB
also most clubs have pay gas electric water rates insurance so if you want to pay an hourly rate once again could tell where this mythical plie of money is going to come from
once again i await your replies Boxcar710 |
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Bandanaman
Flyweight
Posts:63
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| 02 Nov 2006 11:04 PM |
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letter i still say where are you going to get the funds to pay all coaches that join your federation
let me take you what it will cost a club like ours we have six coaches one senior coach two full coaches and three asstistant coaches who put in an average of twelve hours a week if we had to pay them £10 an hour that would be £120 each would work out £826 per week and then we would have to consider our two admin men who put in thirty hours each a week that would be another £600 we would be looking at £1426 per week i think you and and your fellow orginisers are in cloud cookoo land
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What absolute poppyco*k! One of my mates is the Chief Executive of one of the biggest Leisure, Entertainment & Sports Centres around these parts and they only have 2 part time administration ladies doing 15 hours a week each. What the hell can anybody do in an amateur boxing club that takes a combined total of 60 hours a week?
Your calculations regarding Coaches possible income are way off the mark as well. You take no account of the fact that they offer their services freely and willingly and not to make a living, which a rate of £10 an hour would facilitate.
I'm sure that many coaches would appreciate a small recompense for simplke things like the Takeaway meals one buys when missing tea and the petrol back and forth to the gym.
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sammy
Flyweight
Posts:60
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| 02 Nov 2006 11:35 PM |
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| Why dont you join bandaman |
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HedgeHog
Light Flyweight
Posts:9
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| 03 Nov 2006 12:21 AM |
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Posted By boxcar710 on 02 Nov 2006 9:56 PM
boxar710
hedgehog i can assure you that i have been involved with amatuer boxing with the same club since 1972
after reading through your very well put together letter i still say where are you going to get the funds to pay all coaches that join your federation
let me take you what it will cost a club like ours we have six coaches one senior coach two full coaches and three asstistant coaches who put in an average of twelve hours a week if we had to pay them £10 an hour that would be £120 each would work out £826 per week and then we would have to consider our two admin men who put in thirty hours each a week that would be another £600 we would be looking at £1426 per week i think you and and your fellow orginisers are in cloud cookoo land
at the moment any one who wants to become a aba coach all they have to do is put their name down go on the course most of them dont put any time in the gym but put it on their CV getting jobs in schools and leisure centres it costs clubs who put genuine people who want help in the gyms £60 plus £50 first aid with st johns and £15 for CRB
also most clubs have pay gas electric water rates insurance so if you want to pay an hourly rate once again could tell where this mythical plie of money is going to come from
once again i await your replies Boxcar710
Boxcar (or Boxcar 710 as your moniker seems to have changed to - probably a registration problem), I think you - and a number of others on this forum - seem to have grasped the wrong end of the stick here.
Maybe it is me and I have not explained myself correctly, but the FABC is about the continued professional development of coaches - the coaches who coach at your club for example. It is not about coaches getting paid!!
I have been a coach for a number of years, I have been involved in fundraising, matchmaking, coaching, cleaning, opening up and locking the doors at night as the last man out. I am not looking for a wage for what I do - though wouldn't that be nice - all I want, and I think many coaches feel the same, is the opportunity to improve my skills as a coach and - if possible - gain a little respect for what I do and the hours I spend at it.
If a group of coaches can get together and share knowledge and experience (and there are a lot of experienced coaches out there), then that impacts upon the athletes we work with. Better coaches = better athletes. Better athletes = higher level of competition. Higher level of competition = better athletes. Without competition there can be no improvement. Without improvement our athletes can't compete on the world stage. It's not rocket science.
The real problem here appears to be that some people within the sport think that such a thing as a coaches' federation can't exist without the approval of the ABAE. Do you need permisison from your work to play pool or darts with your mates in your spare time? No! because work doesn't cover your leisure time - regardless of what your hobby may be. My hobby is boxing and my work won't pay me for it or even take it into consideration when I want time off.
Equally, the ABAE doesn't consider my work, because I am a volunteer in this sport and whatever I do in my spare time - be it sit in the library, go to university or night school to improve my coaching or sit in a pub to improve my darts - has nothing to do with them.
The FABC is about coach education within the sport. It is not a splinter group or a new body or a plan to rule the world (as some people seem to think).
TNT - Is this the same coaching commission set up by the ABAE in 2005 - who have met but once (in Jan 2006) and who have yet to implement a single proposal by memebers of that same commission? Proposals made, incidentally, by one of the current members of the FABC! Sometimes if you are standing at the bus stop too long, you decide to walk.
And Sammy; If you are happy being less than you can be and are fine with how coaches within this sport are treated then there will be no need for you to join up and learn something. And if you - and the rest of the naysayers on this forum are actually coaches - take out your coaches cards and (resisting the temptation to gaze admiringly upon your photo inside), look at what is written on the back.
What's that it says about the qualities of a good coach? |
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